Bible Rejecter’s Question # 1:
Does God Lie?
Titus 1:2 "God..., cannot lie",
1 Sam,15:29 "The Strength of Israel will not lie",
Ezek.14:9 "I the Lord have deceived that prophet",
Jer,20:7 "O Lord thou hast deceived me and I was deceived",
2 Chron.18:22 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets ",
2 Thess,2: 11 "God sends upon them a strong delusion to make them believe a lie", Acts 7:5 The author admits that God's promise to Abraham (Gen 13:15) did not come to pass,
1 Sam,16:2 God not only told Samuel to lie put told him what lie to use! He was really going to anoint David,
Isa,7:1-7 God told Isaiah to promise Ahaz that his enemy the King of Syria would not harm him, It was a lie because in 2 Chron.28:5 the King of Syria killed Ahaz, in Jonah 3:4 God told Jonah to tell the Assyrians that in 40 days their capital Nineveh would be overthrown but verse 3:10 shows that it was not, since God is omniscient and knew that Nineveh would not in fact be destroyed verse 3:4 was a lie and Ezek.20:25 says God deliberately gave people statutes that they should not live by i.e., he lied to them!
Bible-Believer: Nothing Brian brings up here shows that God tells lies. In Ezek 14:9 God is merely saying that He led a prophet astray, which doesn’t have to involve lying to him. In Jer 20:7 Jeremiah FALSELY accuses God of deceiving Him (Jer 20:7-13). In 2Chronicles 18:22 God puts a lying spirit in the mouth of certain prophets, He doesn’t LIE to them. In Acts 7:5 Stephen (not “the author” - see Acts 7:2) doesn’t say God LIED either. The book of Hebrews sorts out the meaning of Stephen’s statement (scripture always explains scripture). Heb 11:8-9 says Abraham was called to go and sojourn in a land in which he would AFTERWARD receive an inheritance. 11:9 (and Acts 7:17) confirm that Abraham’s seed DID receive the promise eventually, gaining possession of the Promised Land. And Heb 11:10-16 settles the issue as it tells us that the true fulfilment of the inheritance promise to Abraham is YET to take place, it is the New Jerusalem. God didn’t break His promise to Abraham.
In 2Thess 2:11 God blinds some people
into believing “A” lie not HIS lie, He doesn’t LIE to them. In 1Sam 16 God told
Samuel to say that he went to Bethlehem to sacrifice a heifer, which is REALLY
why he was going. God told Samuel not to mention the other reason he was going
to Bethlehem (which was to anoint David), not LIE about it!
Lastly in Isaiah 7:1-7 God DOES NOT tell Isaiah to promise Ahaz that the King of Syria would NEVER harm him, God tells Isaiah to tell him that the confederates would not vex Judah or set Tabeal as king there (7:6-7), God’s promise of course did come true. The King of Syria killed Ahaz at a much later stage and in a completely different situation.
The only reason that Nineveh was not overthrown in 40 days was because the Ninevites repented and cried for God to have mercy on them (Jonah 3:5-9). And just because God knew it wasn’t going to be overthrown in the end doesn’t mean He was lying when He told them it was, because Nineveh was TRULY going to be overthrown, they were TRULY heading towards destruction in 40 days from an in-time, human perspective (the way God HAS TO talk to humans). But they changed their direction, repented and weren’t overthrown. Lastly Ezek 20:25 is clearly not referring to God’s own statutes that He gave Israel (see verse 24). The verse is referring to pagan laws that God allowed Israel to follow without His intervening chastisement (in other words He “gave them” these laws indirectly) in order for Israel to see the consequences of their stupid actions (compare verse 26 with Lev 18:21) and for a comparison case with similar wording see Rom 1:26-27.
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 2:
Does God repent and change his mind?
Num.23:19 "God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man that he should repent".
1 Sam.15:29 "The Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent".
Exod.32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people ".
1 Sam.15:35 "The Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel". How can a perfect God even change his mind? Given Mal 3:6 and James 1:17 which say that God does not change in any way and that there is no variableness with him.
Bible-Believer: God does repent sometimes. In context both Num 23:19 and 1Sam 15:29 are saying that God will not change his mind in particular instances, they are not saying that He will never change His mind at all. In Num 23:19 Balaam is explaining that God cannot go back on something that He specifically said He was going to do, in other words all this verse is saying is that “God is not a man that He should repent” WITH REGARDS HIS PROMISES OF WHAT HE WILL DO (see the part of Num 23:19 that Brian doesn’t mention above), not that “God is not a man that He should” EVER repent about anything. 1Sam 15:29 is a similar case, the Bible is not saying that God NEVER repents at all in this verse (it says God does repent just 6 verses later), but in context the verse is only referring to the dethroning of Saul, “the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent” OF HIS DECISION TO DETHRONE SAUL (see the context of the verse), not “the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent” FULL STOP.
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 3: God
Deut.32:4 "God is just".
In Deut.22:28-29 God decrees that all virgin women who suffer the atrocity of rape must marry their rapists and never divorce them! If that's justice then goodness save us from injustice!
Bible-Believer: God obviously teaches Deut 22:28-29 as a law that doesn’t contradict His just nature though Brian may think it does. Nowhere in the Bible does it say “God is unjust” and there’s therefore no contradiction. Also what Brian doesn’t mention is that if the father of the rape victim refuses to give her to the rapist then there will be no marriage of the two (Exodus 22:17). And what most people in today’s world would find it hard to realise is that this law was actually given in favour of the rape victim because chances are, as dishonoured women they would never be able to find a husband (which equals no children, which Jewish women lived for, and no support) after the rape.
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 4: Does
God live in darkness or light?
1 Kings 8: 12, Psalms 97:2 and 18: 11 say darkness.
1 Tim.6:16 says he lives in light.
Bible-Believer: First off 1Kings 8:12 refers to God’s dwelling place in the holy of holies in the Jerusalem Temple on earth, so this doesn’t contradict 1Tim 6:16, which refers to God’s dwelling place in heaven. There is no contradiction between 1Timothy and the Psalms either, God dwells in the light (1Tim 6:16) beyond the dark clouds talked about in Psalm 97:2 and 18:11.
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 5: Is
God omnipresent or not?
Psalms 139:7-11 and Jer.23:24 say that God is omnipresent i.e. he is everywhere.
Gen.18:21, Gen.11:5, Num 23:15, 1Kings 19:11-12 and Job 1:12 say that God moves from place to place to place and that it is possible to leave his presence. Since he is everywhere how is that possible?
Bible Believer: In Gen 18:21, 11:5, Num 23:15 and 1Kings 19:11-12 God, being invisible to man (Col 1:15) took on a form of some sort in all these Scriptures (mostly a human form) so that man could see and converse with Him. He was still invisibly omnipresent; it’s just that His manifestation or the form He took on moved from place to place. Regarding Job 1:12, many a five year old could tell Brian that God is everywhere but has a special concentrated presence on a throne in heaven. This is God’s soul we’re talking about, not a human being’s; WE can’t stay where we are and at the same time be somewhere else but God can. Satan goes to heaven to speak with God in Job 1:12 and moved away from His presence, this is clearly only speaking of His presence in HEAVEN as the context will show.
Question # 6: All knowing God?
Prov.15:3, Acts 1:24 and Rev.17:8 say that God is omniscient i.e., all knowing
in Gen.3:9, Ezek.20:3, Psalms 14:2, Deut.8:2 and Gen.18:21 “all knowing” God did not know all and sought to learn things!
Bible-Believer: The sum of what Pro 15:3, Acts 1:24 and Rev 17:8 teach is that God can see everything, God knows men’s thoughts, and God knows the future, none of the verses after the But… contradict these statements. Firstly in Gen 3:9 God knew where Adam was, He just wanted Adam to come out from his hiding place (rather than He going to Adam) and confess his transgression to Him. Second it would be a waste of time explaining Ezek 20:3 because we know that Brian or any scoffer, if they’d actually read the verse honestly would never really think that God was trying to learn something. Third, The book of Psalms is one of the poetic books of the Bible that (as anyone can see by reading them) aren’t to be taken literally all the time, even so, God is ALWAYS looking down on man (Pro 15:3); therefore He ALWAYS knows what’s going on. Fourth, Deut 8:2 says that God wanted to PROVE the Israelites and KNOW their hearts, He could already SEE what was in their hearts but He wanted to prove what He saw and know for sure that it was true by putting them to the test. Someone can know something but still go and test it out to know it for sure. Fifth, it is clear from Gen 18:20-21 that God already knew what was going on in Sodom and Gomorrah but He was once again making sure that He was right by going down to earth and actually checking it out from an earthly perspective.
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 7: Is
Isa.27:4 "Fury is not in me".
Isa.34:2 "For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and HIS FURY upon all their armies ".
Jer.21:5 "And I myself [God] will fight against you with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and IN FURY, and in great wrath ".
Micah 5: 15 "I will execute vengeance in anger and FURY".
Nahum 1:2 "The LORD is FURIOUS".
Isa.51:20 "They are full of the FURY OF THE LORD".
Bible-Believer: Any person of any reasonable intelligence can see that this contradiction allegation is nonsense. Brian bizarrely seems to think that God has to be either constantly furious or constantly not furious! Like anyone else, fury is not in God (Isa 27:4) until He has something to be furious about (Isa 34, Mic 5, Nah 1:2, Isa 51:20). Isa 34:2 is actually a prophecy about God being furious at all nations in the far off FUTURE (see 34:3-4).
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 8: Has God ever been seen?
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time".
Exod.33:20 "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see my face and live".
Gen.32:30 "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved".
Job.42:5 "Now mine eye seeth thee [God] ".
Num.14:14 "Thou Lord art seen face to face".
Isaiah 6:1 "I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne".
Deut 34:10 says that Moses knew the Lord “face to face”. NOTHING is said about seeing God “in all his glory” or only seeing “manifestations of God”, that’s just changing the words to suit yourself. It says God was seen FACE to FACE and sitting on His throne! Says one thing and means another again?
Bible-Believer: Here Brian both attacks the Bible AND the common believer’s response to this alleged discrepancy. The Bible does teach that some have seen God but never in all His glory, this is why it appears contradictory. By the term “in all His glory” we mean “in His fullness” or “as He really is”. When God appeared to the men in the verses listed above and when He became a man in Jesus Christ the, men did not have a complete VISUAL experience of God. This is because God only ever appeared as a MAN (like putting a mask on) in order for men to better relate to Him and because a total appearance (God’s real face) would incinerate him.
It is true that the Bible says NOTHING about these appearances being just “manifestations of God” or that they weren’t God “in all his glory” but it is the only conclusion we can come to, using reason NOT changing words to suit ourselves.
It will be clear to anyone who’d care to read any of the passages that Brian has spoken of above that God appears as a man except for the instance in Job, where He appears as a whirlwind. Jacob wrestled with a man and saw a MAN’S face in Genesis 32 NOT God’s (see verse 24). Moses saw a man’s face in Num 14:14 (see 12:8). When the Bible says that Moses knew God “face to face” it doesn’t mean that Moses actually saw anything more than a man’s face either. If Brian bothered reading Exodus 33:20 (where God says “no man can see me and live”) in CONTEXT he would’ve discovered that God said this to Moses while speaking with him “face to face”(33:11). The only reason that Moses would desire to see the face of God and the only reason that God would say that Moses couldn’t see Him in this chapter would be if he were NOT already seeing the face of God (God’s glory-see verse 18) but merely seeing a MAN’S face that represented God (the correct interpretation of the phrase “face to face”).
We have therefore deduced that,
- God merely appeared to man as a MAN.
- God isn’t a MAN (see Num 23:19).
- Therefore God appeared in a different form than He exists in.
- It follows that no man has REALLY seen Him
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 9: My
Father is greater than I?
John 10:30 says “I and my Father are one”, but John 14:28 says “My Father is greater than I”, John 7:16 says “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me”, John 20:17 says “I ascend unto my Father and your Father; unto my God and your God”, 1 Cor.11: 3 establishes a hierarchy with women at the bottom (naturally, see p.27) climbing to men, Jesus and finally God. If Jesus is God how could “God” be the “head” of God? Acts 2:36 says Jesus was made Lord by God, which means he was not Lord at one time; how can God be made God by God? If Jesus is God (John 10:30) then how can God say he is going to HIS GOD (John 20:17)? If Jesus is God, how can God be greater than he? When Jesus cried out on the Cross “My God…” (Matt.27:46) to whom was he speaking? To God? That’s God speaking to God; two Gods! How can you be one and still be separate? They are either one or they are not, the states are mutually exclusive.
Bible-Believer: See our response to “contradiction” no.10 just below. 1. The Word of God and the Father are ONE God (John 10:30). However the Father is obviously greater (John 14:28) than the man that He and the Word dwelt in for 33 years (2Cor 5:19) and the human He took possession of (2Col 2:9). 2. In John 7:16 Jesus is saying that His doctrine is not merely the doctrine of a human, it was God’s who dwelt in Him and spoke through Him, what Brian is trying to say by listing this verse is a mystery. We’ll come back to John 20:17. 3. God is the head (1Cor 11:3) of the fully human body, soul, spirit of Jesus Christ, not the head of God (see 1Tim 2:5). 4. Jesus the man was made Lord by God in Acts 2:36, this merely meant that Jesus was made Ruler and King not that He was made God! 5. Jesus (as a man) had to have a God, He had a human soul, spirit and body and that’s how He could say that He was going to His God in John 20:17. Jesus the HUMAN (not God) suffered the torment on the cross; God was the one pouring out the punishment (remember God has no body, and has no blood), which is why He could cry out to God. There is no inconsistency.
Bible Rejecter’s Question # 10: Does
Jesus know everything?
Col.2:3 "In whom [Jesus] are hid ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge". Col.2:9 "In him [Jesus] dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily".
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven NEITHER THE SON".
Since God by definition is omniscient the fact that Jesus admitted to not knowing something rules out the possibility of him being God incarnate.
Bible Believer: For a start Col 2:3 refers to both God the Father and Christ. Secondly, Col 2:9 claims that the fullness of the Godhead DWELLS in Jesus “bodily” not that His body (or human part) is God. Since the Godhead dwelt in “something”, it follows that, that “something” isn’t the Godhead (God didn’t dwell in God!). The “something” that the Godhead dwelt in was that part of Jesus that WASN’T God, a human body.
Christ consisted of two natures. The “bodily” man Jesus (1Tim 2:5) was not just superficially human but actually no less human than all of us and as such had flesh, a soul, a spirit, arms and legs and had to be born, grow up, eat, sleep, drink, die and was not omniscient, unlike GOD. When Jesus talks about the “Son” not knowing everything in Mark 13:32 He speaks about the mediator between God and man, the second Adam, the son of David, the “bodily” part that God dwelt in, a man, not omniscient God. This is also why the Son needed to pray to God like any other man. Jesus says in John 12:49-50 and 14:10 that sometimes He’s not speaking for Himself (the “bodily” man) but He is saying God’s words in the first person because God was in Him, speaking through Him (1Cor 5:19). None of the New Testament writers saw a contradiction with this concept; Jesus Christ is represented as co-existent God and man throughout the whole Bible, and hence there cannot be any BIBLE contradiction here.